That doesn't explain places like Saudi Arabia, where non-believers are jailed or murdered.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's an excellent point that I was going to bring up earlier. However, I would break the interpretations into two categories: first, there are the "legal" issues or different interpretations of the text. That is unavoidable since words have different meanings. The second, though, (and I know this to be common in Christianity) is people blatantly disregarding entire sections of the religious text. That's not just a different interpretation... and to me, one would have to question how much they consider themselves a "Christian" or "Muslim" if they just blatantly disregard or disagree with large sections.

_________________

Why should we have to concern ourselves with the "true Islam", if there even is such a thing? The number of people that support the ideology that is driving the terrorism makes up a much larger group than your post would suggest. And any polling data you can find supports that conclusion.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Islamic terrorism is a more extreme manifestation of the beliefs and actions of other Islamic states that create an environment of intolerance. "True Islam" should also reject the everyday actions of Saudi Arabia. For some reason, they do not.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't buy it because the vast majority of terrorist activity is inflicted against other Muslims. Unless you mean to suggest that Muslims support the terrorists that attack them. Really what is happening with Al Qaeda, Boko Harem, Al Shabob, the Tailban, and now Isis is that they are attacking people, mainly Muslims, who are not extreme enough. They attack schools in Afghanistan because they educate women. They attack Shia because they do not believe in the same Caliphs. They attack governments that have not imposed Sharia law.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

This is exactly what you are doing though. You're accusing people like Vegan and the Khan's of being some of the worst things because they are Muslims. You've already determined what someone can and cannot be based on how much they believe the text of a particular holy book. You're be disingenuous if you say this isn't the case.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Nas' Facebook friend really moves the meters around here.

_________________

I don't know anything about the beliefs of vegan or the Khans. If they're Muslims, they have some bad ones. I'm not going to introduce myself and say that to someone. I can't fix all the bad ideas in the world. But to say that these ideas aren't bad, well, now you're trying to tell me what to think, besides being wrong.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

As I've said MANY times I don't have an issue with you mocking the text in any religious book. I don't agree with everything in the Bible. I have a problem when you accuse an entire group of people of being some of the worst things because they are Muslim.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There are core ideas in Islam that are just bad. Do you really disagree with that? Let me ask you this, what are the common characteristics/values/beliefs that define Muslims? There must be must be some, otherwise there are no Muslims at all.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

I'm not Muslim so I can't answer. However when people who are Muslims say they don't believe MANY of the things that you or I may disagree with it becomes clear to me that those must not be core beliefs.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If Islam truly taught it's believers to create chaos and mayhem then the world would be far worse that it actually is. You cannot take the actions of a few (relatively speaking) and stereotype all.

Isis, AL Quade or any of the other groups that seek to create havoc don't speak for all of their followers anymore than people like Jim Jones Timothy McVeigh or the KKK speak for all of the followers of Christianity. America has no problem with extrapolating its whack jobs from other parts of society and the same courtesy should be extended to Muslims.

_________________

_________________

_________________

It isn't just a few though. It may be a few in America but it isn't a few worldwide.

Let's set up a gofundme page for Seacrest to go read The Bible in a public park in Saudi Arabia(I would contribute a lot to this) and let's see what happens. That is the real problem here and the offshoot terrorist organizations are just taking that same accepted line of thinking to a logical conclusion.

What gets lost here is that almost all American Muslims practice a MUCH different religion than most of the Middle East does. Either by being forced or simply by knowing a better way most Muslims figure out the same things devout Christians did which is that many of the rules and customs of their religion are stupid and wrong and need to change. This happens because people like JORR refuse to just accept it as cultural differences.

I always feel bad in these discussions because clearly most American Muslims should not be lumped in with the crazies but most of the crazies end up a lot closer to the average Muslim in many Middle Eastern than they are.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Good post. Why does this discussion have to be such a headache inducing binary argument? There are terrorists and their organizations that are in fact Muslim. They may be bastardizing the Koran or following it way too literally I don't know. But in their perverted way they have waged a religious inspired campaign.

There naturally are MANY Muslims that for a variety of reasons do not do this and live what we would call a normal life. Labeling all Muslims as savages or terrorists is obviously wrong.

If you take away the terror it is not so hard to understand as many religions have their core beliefs or doctrines watered down so to speak in more progressive lands. A simple example is the American Catholic. Many are not doing things the same as many Catholics in Rome. Or Orthodox Jews versus progressive "cultural Jews".

So the discussion or solution we need is not to debate the above to death. It is how to identify and eliminate the threat to us from those Muslims that mean to do us harm. That is not easy but that is where the debate effort really belongs.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

_________________

Why do you need to draw a line? Who cares if other people criticize the way you are Lutheran / Catholic / Muslim?

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I thought I was referencing that guy

_________________

Not talking about some of the broad brushing but it seems criticizing Muslim anything around here is touchy to some.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

I'm discussing individuals and the way they practice religion...how "by the book" so to speak. If they identify as Muslim, then they are Muslim.

I criticize organized religion all the time. All religions. But comparing one to another and rating them is a fool's game. I find it insane that one devout Christian can lambast Islam or Judaism or any othet major religion.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Unless they are a terrorist who identifies as one and then it is background check time.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There is no issue with Muslims who don't believe in Islam.

The problem is that there is no majority Muslim country that you could live in. You'd open that yap of yours and get caned or beheaded in a moment.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Example: I don't see how women wearing a hijab to show modesty is considered crazy by people that think changing their diet on fridays for a couple months makes all the sense in the world.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

One is not gender specific. The other one is.

If women had to not eat meat while the men all had steak dinners to celebrate then it would be the same.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm catching up on a lot of this now, but this is much more disingenuous than what you accused IMU of posting. If all you were aiming to do was mock the beliefs of Islam and make fun of the religion(the thing that people do to Scientologists), then nobody would probably give much of a shit and I would laugh right alongside with you. Similarly, if you started talking about how dangerous Scientology is and how incompatible with Western values it is and how scared of it we should all be, then I and many others here would probably change our tune. You know it isn't an apples to apples comparison.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Turkey, bruh.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You missed the point. Both seem silly and unnecessary.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

This thread is exhausting, particularly because it's like blind people arguing about which primary color is the best one.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

You're right it's not apples to apples. Scientologists aren't running around the earth blowing themselves up.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.