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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 3:05 pm 
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USA wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I get bombarded with pope watchers on my youtube algorithm both favorable and unfavorable. They make content weekly or more. I wouldn't know 99% of what he did if they weren't squawking about it and I'm modestly diligent.

I dunno how but YouTube somehow interpreted my watch history of videos about trains and NYPD Blue clips as cause to feed me a steady diet of “The Hoof GP” which is basically like Dr. Pimple Popper but for cows.


I can't stop watching that...which then leads to videos of lancing cow abscesses.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:40 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I didn't hate the pope but I didn't like him. I think many of his views are progressive that are or could have a fundamental if not existential effect on the Catholic Church itself. He has also surrounded himself with some pretty awful people such as McCarrick and another whose name I can 't remember, that guy who embezzled money, and Fernandez who has some pretty odd views and I don't believe it's all coincidental. And as CH just said his heart was in the right place...maybe (I'm not so sure that is the case) but let's say that it was...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whether this is deliberate or not doesn't matter if the end result is negative.

I think many who profess their love of Jesus would love him very much if he returned provided they had a clear understanding of Jesus and believe in him. There is a second part to the parable of the adulterous woman that people seem to forget.


Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


I'd say that those are two very different teachings.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:18 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I didn't hate the pope but I didn't like him. I think many of his views are progressive that are or could have a fundamental if not existential effect on the Catholic Church itself. He has also surrounded himself with some pretty awful people such as McCarrick and another whose name I can 't remember, that guy who embezzled money, and Fernandez who has some pretty odd views and I don't believe it's all coincidental. And as CH just said his heart was in the right place...maybe (I'm not so sure that is the case) but let's say that it was...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whether this is deliberate or not doesn't matter if the end result is negative.

I think many who profess their love of Jesus would love him very much if he returned provided they had a clear understanding of Jesus and believe in him. There is a second part to the parable of the adulterous woman that people seem to forget.


Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


I'd say that those are two very different teachings.


What teaching did Francis change then?

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:58 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I didn't hate the pope but I didn't like him. I think many of his views are progressive that are or could have a fundamental if not existential effect on the Catholic Church itself. He has also surrounded himself with some pretty awful people such as McCarrick and another whose name I can 't remember, that guy who embezzled money, and Fernandez who has some pretty odd views and I don't believe it's all coincidental. And as CH just said his heart was in the right place...maybe (I'm not so sure that is the case) but let's say that it was...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whether this is deliberate or not doesn't matter if the end result is negative.

I think many who profess their love of Jesus would love him very much if he returned provided they had a clear understanding of Jesus and believe in him. There is a second part to the parable of the adulterous woman that people seem to forget.


Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


I'd say that those are two very different teachings.


What teaching did Francis change then?

DEI in all Catholic schools

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 6:03 pm 
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Opus DEI

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 7:51 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:

Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


How about excommunicating Vigano, climate change, vaccinations, and closing churches during Covid?


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:29 pm 
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So you're saying he shouldn't have excommunicated the subordinate who claimed that the pope was illegitimate?

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:40 pm 
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More like who does he believe or side with.


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:43 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
USA wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I get bombarded with pope watchers on my youtube algorithm both favorable and unfavorable. They make content weekly or more. I wouldn't know 99% of what he did if they weren't squawking about it and I'm modestly diligent.

I dunno how but YouTube somehow interpreted my watch history of videos about trains and NYPD Blue clips as cause to feed me a steady diet of “The Hoof GP” which is basically like Dr. Pimple Popper but for cows.


I can't stop watching that...which then leads to videos of lancing cow abscesses.

HOLD UP! That's my thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:44 pm 
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I hope the next Pope takes his papal name (Francis) and acts like the greatest saint of them all (Francis)

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No. I think it just goes directly in the ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:25 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I didn't hate the pope but I didn't like him. I think many of his views are progressive that are or could have a fundamental if not existential effect on the Catholic Church itself. He has also surrounded himself with some pretty awful people such as McCarrick and another whose name I can 't remember, that guy who embezzled money, and Fernandez who has some pretty odd views and I don't believe it's all coincidental. And as CH just said his heart was in the right place...maybe (I'm not so sure that is the case) but let's say that it was...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whether this is deliberate or not doesn't matter if the end result is negative.

I think many who profess their love of Jesus would love him very much if he returned provided they had a clear understanding of Jesus and believe in him. There is a second part to the parable of the adulterous woman that people seem to forget.


Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


I'd say that those are two very different teachings.


What teaching did Francis change then?


I didn't say that Francis changed the teaching. I believe the 30 pieces of silver and Pilate and the denial of Peter were lessons regarding the weaknesses of man and yet the possibility for forgiveness. While the story of the woman caught in adultery was a story of many people being self righteous while being sinners themselves. He exposed them and embarrassed them for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:36 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Opus DEI


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:42 pm 
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Hopefully the new Pope will seek to end the oppression of free school lunches.


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:13 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


How about excommunicating Vigano, climate change, vaccinations, and closing churches during Covid?


Vigano excommunicated himself by his actions.

The Pope said people should get vaccinations. I don’t take medical advice from Brick or Popes. Churches were closed out of an abundance of caution for the sake of saving lives.

And since you read Laudato Si, please be specific about his climate thoughts that are a problem for you

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 8:38 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Hopefully the new Pope will seek to end the oppression of free school lunches.

It's amazing how many kids who go to Catholic schools can't even afford lunch. You'd think that wouldn't be possible, but it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 10:06 am 
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Seacrest wrote:

Vigano excommunicated himself by his actions.

The Pope said people should get vaccinations. I don’t take medical advice from Brick or Popes. Churches were closed out of an abundance of caution for the sake of saving lives.

And since you read Laudato Si, please be specific about his climate thoughts that are a problem for you


Vigano could be right though - it's undeniable the pope handled the sex abuse scandals terribly at best. Vaccinations are not a moral obligation, an act of love, and while someone could make the argument love is social it is not political. The pope doesn't need to be leading his flock that way. The pope should have been more vocal about churches being open considering the places that stayed open or were essential or what was allowed, the covid closings were never about saving lives. I don't think getting rid of fossil fuels without a workable system of replacement in place is a good idea and it would certainly worsen poverty. His individual suggestions are mostly fine in general but personally I'd say no thanks. That's not a moral failure on my part. I don't think any real specific collective solutions were offered. I don't think climate change is a failure of human morality and I think a lot of the people ringing the bell on it have bad intentions. It makes me suspicious of him or his motivations.


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 10:40 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Vigano excommunicated himself by his actions.

The Pope said people should get vaccinations. I don’t take medical advice from Brick or Popes. Churches were closed out of an abundance of caution for the sake of saving lives.

And since you read Laudato Si, please be specific about his climate thoughts that are a problem for you


Vigano could be right though - it's undeniable the pope handled the sex abuse scandals terribly at best. Vaccinations are not a moral obligation, an act of love, and while someone could make the argument love is social it is not political. The pope doesn't need to be leading his flock that way. The pope should have been more vocal about churches being open considering the places that stayed open or were essential or what was allowed, the covid closings were never about saving lives. I don't think getting rid of fossil fuels without a workable system of replacement in place is a good idea and it would certainly worsen poverty. His individual suggestions are mostly fine in general but personally I'd say no thanks. That's not a moral failure on my part. I don't think any real specific collective solutions were offered. I don't think climate change is a failure of human morality and I think a lot of the people ringing the bell on it have bad intentions. It makes me suspicious of him or his motivations.


What was Vigano right about?

Initially, The Pope clearly made mistakes both here, and in Chile with regards to sexual abuse cases. In in each case he apologized, and corrected his mistake..

You can say "no thanks" to anything a Pope says. I wouldn't recommend it on theological issues. The Pope never said he was for ridding the world of all fossil fuels. Love should reside in personal, as well as political relationships. At all times. Clear cutting the Amazon is an ecological, as well as a moral failure.

The Pope is certainly free to lead his flock socially. And I think that is universally recognized by Catholics, atheists and a just about every other religion as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 11:00 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Francis treated LGBT folks the same way that Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. He didn't judge them, and dealt with them on individual basis.

Jesus surrounded himself with a guy that would sell him out to be killed. And his first Pope denied even knowing him when confronted, after swearing that he would never do such a thing.

If that's progressive, then so be it.


How about excommunicating Vigano, climate change, vaccinations, and closing churches during Covid?


Vigano excommunicated himself by his actions.

The Pope said people should get vaccinations. I don’t take medical advice from Brick or Popes. Churches were closed out of an abundance of caution for the sake of saving lives.

And since you read Laudato Si, please be specific about his climate thoughts that are a problem for you

The Pope was right. That's why you needed to get an emergency COVID treatment.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 11:48 am 
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More of my posts from yesterday magically disappeared. This time in the discussion of Pope Francis death. Someone just can't take any opinion other than his own. :lol: :lol: Be nice if someone actually could debate on a board supposedly created for debate?

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 11:52 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
So you're saying he shouldn't have excommunicated the subordinate who claimed that the pope was illegitimate?


I did answer your question yesterday but it was erased by someone. Someone didn't like my answer I guess?

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:14 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
yeah, religion can be so preachy

Luckily, we can turn to Unitarianism.

You, ultimately, have to live with who you are, so you might as well proclaim it clearly and boldly. I think this was where Francis could be deficient. It's a tough balance to teach both "neither do I condemn you." and "Now go and sin no more". I'll thank anyone who takes on the task for his service.


Why is that so hard for you to balance?


because people take calling actions a sin as a condemnation



That was the beauty of Francis. Like Christ, he doesn't condemn. He didn't tell the woman specifically not to commit adultery. He didn't need to.

Catholic teaching is available and unequivocal.


Are you saying that the Catholic religion doesn't condemn sin, especially mortal sin? Please explain what Christ meant by "Go forth and SIN NO MORE?


The Catholic Church doesn't usually condemn people publicly.

The leave that up to you, and The Doctor of Style.


I responded to this post by Crest and by golly, it disappeared also among a couple of others. Could it be that someone only wants his opinion to be seen? Wonder why? I like a good debate on topical things. Seeing another's opinion and debating things make life interesting, does it not? Unfortunately your options get limited when part of the discussion gets removed.

I don't care for the cheap shot that Crest took at me and further pissed me off with the comment about condemning people. In a related post which also got erased, I told Crest that I have had a solid Catholic education and know that some of his statements regarding church doctrine was not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:32 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
yeah, religion can be so preachy

Luckily, we can turn to Unitarianism.

You, ultimately, have to live with who you are, so you might as well proclaim it clearly and boldly. I think this was where Francis could be deficient. It's a tough balance to teach both "neither do I condemn you." and "Now go and sin no more". I'll thank anyone who takes on the task for his service.


Why is that so hard for you to balance?


because people take calling actions a sin as a condemnation



That was the beauty of Francis. Like Christ, he doesn't condemn. He didn't tell the woman specifically not to commit adultery. He didn't need to.

Catholic teaching is available and unequivocal.


Are you saying that the Catholic religion doesn't condemn sin, especially mortal sin? Please explain what Christ meant by "Go forth and SIN NO MORE?


The Catholic Church doesn't usually condemn people publicly.

The leave that up to you, and The Doctor of Style.


The Hawk wrote:
I responded to this post by Crest and by golly, it disappeared also among a couple of others. Could it be that someone only wants his opinion to be seen? Wonder why? I like a good debate on topical things. Seeing another's opinion and debating things make life interesting, does it not? Unfortunately your options get limited when part of the discussion gets removed.

I don't care for the cheap shot that Crest took at me and further pissed me off with the comment about condemning people. In a related post which also got erased, I told Crest that I have had a solid Catholic education and know that some of his statements regarding church doctrine was not true.


Be specific about what you think the Pope said that wasn't true.

And i have no idea why JORR is deleting your posts. I'll speak to him about it before the day is over.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:36 pm 
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It could be me deleting them! (It’s not though)


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:52 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
It could be me deleting them! (It’s not though)



It's JORR.

Very passive aggressive. Some say the most passive aggressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 1:08 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
It could be me deleting them! (It’s not though)

KDdidit did it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 1:25 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
It could be me deleting them! (It’s not though)



It's JORR.

Very passive aggressive. Some say the most passive aggressive.


Atheists need to stay out of religious business!


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 1:25 pm 
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Let he who is without sin delete the first post.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 1:47 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
It could be me deleting them! (It’s not though)



It's JORR.

Very passive aggressive. Some say the most passive aggressive.


Atheists need to stay out of religious business!


JORR has been the most busy in the moderator's log.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 2:12 pm 
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ok, ok, my take....JORR's censorship isn’t so much about freedom of speech in a revolutionary sense—it’s about the subtle trimming of rough edges to keep brunch vibes undisturbed. Look at it through the lens of curated content. Nobody wants chaos in their feed. They want espresso shots of information—clean, ethical, aesthetically pleasing. A banned book? Sure, but only if it looks good on the coffee table next to the Kinfolk magazine and the candle that smells like “Mountain Air & White Privilege.” To him censorship isn't Orwellian—it’s just the algorithm doing its job. Keeping things “on brand.” After all, nobody wants to see dissent when you're sipping oat milk and planning your next sustainable getaway.

He's not against free speech. It’s just… could it come with better fonts and less confrontation?


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 Post subject: Re: Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 2:33 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Let he who is without sin delete the first post.


Rofl!

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