I'm a basketball guy. I don't get caught up in emotional stuff involving athletes though I did think the Bullshit he did with Rose was bogus. I don't hate the guy I just don't think he is elite unlike you and a few others.

Aren't you the same dude that said he was a top 10 guy? Do you still think that now? I'd love to discuss that one.

_________________

Yes. I'd still have him around 9 or 10 without a doubt.

I think the bullshit Rose did to the entire Bulls team for the last several seasons with bogus. Rose is a loser. Rose is selfish. Good riddance.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Not the stats game again? I just watched him get severely outplayed by the Greek freak in 3 games against him. I also see him get outplayed a lot whenever he is matched up against other elite guys.

A guy that has the ball all the time is going to "get his numbers". He is the best player on a crappy team. If that is what floats your boat fine.

Hoiberg can be great or he can be terrible but it wouldn't matter much either way. I look at him the same way I looked at the Rose issue. Rose wasn't the biggest problem afflicting the team last year buy he was the convenient scapegoat.

The reason that I focus on Butler was because it was very important for him to be the "guy". It was also important for the guys that love him for him to be the guy. OK well he is and see where it has gotten them. They can place Greg Popovich in tomorrow and they still wouldn't be very good. That is my point. The first to go should be GarPax then Hoiberg then Butler.

_________________

You are also the same guy that said that this was a crappy team when this roster was created in the summer remember. Isn't a tad disingenuous to suggest that Hoiberg's inability to elevate them to great heights is a reflection of him as a coach? The Bulls were predicted by mosts analysts to be about where they are now. You'd think he has the Timberwolves record the way he is bashed on here.

_________________

Trade for Carmelo.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I just watched "The Mayor" get thoroughly outcoached by Jason Kidd for 3 straight games. I also see him get outcoached a lot by other elite coaches. Oh what's that? The roster is a problem for Hoiberg and makes it hard to assess his coaching talents? Then why the hell are you focusing on Butler peaking out at a guy getting his numbers on a crappy team? I feel quite confident that Butler is far closer to a top 10 active player if he's not already in that category than Hoiberg is anywhere near that distinction as a coach.

I'll agree with you describing Butler as maxing out as the best player on a crappy team if and when he continues to ballhog when he's not surrounded by crappy players. As it is your continuous focus on one of the few bright spots this year makes it seem like it is personal and emotional for you, despite claims to the contrary (which is also a good reason to bring up stats as well, as your "eye test" seems quite clouded by who you like and dislike).

What did expect this Bulls team to be record wise?

Butler was surrounded by Better players last year and he still ball hogged. Remember he got mad that they didn't call more iso plays for him early in the season. That was one of the things missed in all the Hoiberg bashing.

_________________

Correct, I did predict this team would suck. "Most" analysts doesn't include the front office, which has been selling the fans a false bill of goods about this team being a contender for two seasons now. We're now being told about Hoiberg's "growth" into the position when he was initially sold as an instant fix for that 50-win which had so terribly underachieved with his predecessor.

I'd say I've been a lot more willing to recognize the lack of talent as partly absolving Hoiberg than you've been when it comes to Butler's on the court performance. Apparently Butler's inability to have this garbage roster competing for a top seed reflects on his on-the-court abilities, but that same garbage roster makes it impossible to assess Hoiberg at all. As I said in the very post you're responding to, the roster is either crap for both or neither. It's a bit rich for you to accuse me of disingenuousness when I've merely pointed your own inconsistency on this issue.

I thought last year's team was plagued by injuries though and would have definitely been more competitive if they hadn't been hobbled by the losses of crucial pieces like Mike Dunleavy Jr and Joakim Noah for so much of the season? Or is that another excuse reserved for Hoiberg and Hoiberg alone?

The Bulls had injuries to more players than that. If the Bulls had the record of the Timberwolves I'd bash Hoiberg. A team was predicted to be 2 games under .500 playing 2 games under .500 isn't the coach's fault. A GM trying to spin something for P.R. purposes is nothing new. I'm not blaming Butler for the mediocrity. He isn't the biggest problem. That is different than suggesting that it is a problem if he is your best player.

_________________

Calling Butler any part of the problem is stupid. Of course he isn't the biggest problem. He is essentially the only bright spot.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Stacey King has taken to calling Iso ball a problem during each and every game now. That constitutes "any part of the problem". Is it the main issue no but it is an issue.

_________________

They can also ship Taj Gibson out of town also. Now he is questioning the decision to bench Rondo. Who in the hell does he think he is

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... story.html

_________________

Yeah that statement is bullshit. There aren't 2 or 3 guys on "a lot of good teams" that are better than Butler. He's a top 15 to 25 player in the league. Probably closer to 15 this season.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU

What is wrong with "iso ball"?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

A veteran and one of the only consistent pros on this team the past 5+ years. He's earned the right to voice his opinion.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU

Kings a boob the Iso Ball is being played cause Fred has no have court offense....pick and roll with Lopez and Rondo ...what opens up the floor are guys that can make 3's...you see any on this team? There are 2 ends what about the D the Bucks looked liked the Trotters the other day....Butler and Taj play D the rest I don't now what they do out there.

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Stacey King is an idiot never-was. His claim to fame is that Michael Jordan allowed him into Chicago Stadium on a nightly basis. If you're relying on him for your analysis you're going to have a bad time.

DON'T DO ME LIKE THAT IMU!

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Let me throw this out there don't the Cavs and Warriors play a lot of Iso ball?

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Correct but they do it with much better offensive players. Butler is an average offensive player. I'm not opposed to isoball when you are a great offensive player. He isn't.

_________________

Has he earned the right to always be an iso player too? The absolute dumbest thing that Hoiberg has started to do lately is run is plays for Taj Gibson. Hoiberg definitely an idiot for that.

He doesn't have the right to ask why anyone is benched.

_________________

then they have to run half court sets which I haven't seen in the Hoiberg era

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Geez Louise, what did Taj Gibson do, believe that Israel has the right to exist?

_________________

They run plays particularly earlier in the game. Once it gets past halftime the Ball starts sticking a lot. Stacey King knows basketball too. The guy has a CBA championship as a coach. That says something.

_________________

Evidently LTG doesn't know fuck about basketball ....because Jimmy is a FRANCHISE player! For your Stacey King knows the game before the game he was saying how McDermott just stands around....fuck he's been doing that for 3 years

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

A franchise player who typically gets outplayed by every elite guy at his position. He will get the best of lesser players but when he locks up against top guys he gets his ass handed to him more often than not. You must can't differentiate between best and franchise.

_________________

Specific to the Paul George vs Jimmy Butler comparison, Butler is definitely the better player currently. 30 of 30 GM's agree.

http://basketball-players.pointafter.co ... mmy-Butler

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

A top ten guy can't be the 9th best player on a team of B list talent. No way no how

http://www.si.com/olympics/2016/06/27/u ... 6-olympics

_________________

He is the second best player on that team.

I'm not going to get into the politics of rewarding players with more experience and a longer held "reputation" in the league.

Jimmy Butler was not highly touted coming out of college. He wasn't a great player from Day 1. He worked his ass off.

I could understand how the league takes awhile to adopt him as one of the current greats. It is unfair, but it is what it is.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I buy it with Carmelo. He isn't the same guy but not so much the other guys. Butler was slotted about where he should have played in the rotation.

The other issue which makes it difficult to place him in the top ten pertains to how he performs against top guys at his position. Kawhi Leonard thoroughly dominates him and he hasn't been able to do anything with the Greek Freak either. Last year Anthony outplayed him in 3 of 4 games too. If he is that "guy" then you should be able to hold your own better than he does when paired against other top players.

_________________