I buy it with Carmelo. He isn't the same guy but not so much the other guys. Butler was slotted about where he should have played in the rotation.

The other issue which makes it difficult to place him in the top ten pertains to how he performs against top guys at his position. Kawhi Leonard thoroughly dominates him and he hasn't been able to do anything with the Greek Freak either. Last year Anthony outplayed him in 3 of 4 games too. If he is that "guy" then you should be able to hold your own better than he does when paired against other top players.

Antetokounmpo is becoming a top player in the league. Kawhi is a top 5 player. Yes, it isn't unreasonable that they could one-up Jimmy Butler.

On December 30, 2006 Luol Deng outplayed Lebron James...going a very efficient 15 of 19 and helping cause Lebron to turn the ball over 5 times in a Bulls win.

Luol Deng is not better than Lebron James. Over their entire head to head career, LeBron James easily gets the best of that battle.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =antetgi01

As Jimmy Butler has gotten the best of Giannis Antetokounmpo.

I wouldn't put Antetokounmpo above Butler yet. Butler has been upper echelon for three seasons now...this is Antetokounmpo's first.

The other three are better than Butler. That doesn't mean Butler isn't better than DeMarcus Cousins or Kyrie Irving. He is.

No he isn't. I will just use Irving as an example. He dominated the league MVP from last year. He demonstrated what it takes to be that "guy". When Butler starts doing that against top tier guys then it becomes a conversation. That's old school lace em up and get after it basketball. When I consistently see him get locked up on D or outplayed on offense by top guys then it is difficult to put him in the conversation. Giannis is better and people had Butler top 10 last season too. He'd only played at a high level for one season and people here placed him in the top 10

You talk like Irving was the reason the Cavs won the championship

Did you even watch the games? If so then there'd be no need to explain his impact.

Butler looked pretty good against Lebron in the 2015 playoffs. He scored, rebounded and didn't turn the ball over. He also held Lebron to under 40% shooting for the series. 4.5 turnovers per game for Lebron.

He also one-upped the Antetokounmpo led Bucks in the first round.

And he has only gotten better in the two seasons since.

The main impact was Lebron's will and Greens' suspension ....and yes I watched the games did you?

He does tend to play James tough on defense. Defensively Butler is solid. He was better before his offense came along but he is still good to very good defensively.

It is his offense that prevents him from being upper echelon in my opinion. Doesn't shoot or handle particularly well and ball stops alot. He is good at drawing fouls though. It takes him too many dribbles to get his shot off.

There is no one blueprint for greatness.

Get the ball to Carmelo and get out of his way.

Blueprint for mediocrity: playing Etwaun Moore significant minutes. Already product tested.

I've come around to the belief that Hoiberg is overmatched by the NBA game.

Here's hoping we slip out of playoff contention and somehow, someway secure a top 4 pick. Otherwise we're f**cked as Bull fans under this ownership.

Hoiberg has to go. He can't coach at this level.

Butler has to be right behind him. The Butler as franchise player thing is a disaster.
I don't know if they will eat the salary but if they are then he has to go. The Bulls aren't very talented but that doesnt explain everything.

You can thank me later.

Unlike you I was willing to give him a chance. Butler has to be bounced too. He isn't a franchise player.

His ineptness was on full display only two months into last season. There was no doubt he was in over his head.

Butler not being a franchise player isn't a reason to dump him - it's a reason to find a Batman so he can be Robin.

Butler not being a franchise player isn't a reason to dump him - it's a reason to find a Batman so he can be Robin.

The problem is Jimmy sees himself as Batman and there's nobody that's going to change his mind about taking a lesser role. And even if you find a way to team him up with someone who's a legit star in their prime, that someone better not need the ball because Butler is going to dominate it. He's also going to slow things down so he can get his offense in.

Unfortunately for him and for us as fans, he's player best suited to a different era of NBA basketball.

I don't really see how one can conclude he irrevocably needs the ball in his hands at all times or would simply never accept not being Batman when there's literally never been anyone worth deferring to on the Bulls since his ascent.