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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:52 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
In a sense it can but that is why terms like prejudice or discrimination need to be used instead of racism. This past election is a perfect example. If Blacks wanted to prevent Trump from being president they couldn't. Many did in fact. Conversely If Whites wanted to prevent Obama from being President they could have. Blacks did not have the power to elect Obama solely on the black vote.

Blacks lacked the power to prevent Trump from being President. That is but one example. You pick any entity and this would pretty much be the case. That is racism


What? So just the fact that white's outnumber blacks means racism?



In this instance no. If whites chose to manifest it in a way which denied blacks access to the Presidency they could. It doesn't apply to every instance but within the framework of an electoral system it could be. Barack Obama could be denied access to the Presidency If Whites Didn't Vote For him.

Racism at its very core is a denial of access. Whites have the power to deny blacks access to any entity for which they seek. Blacks don't have such power to do the same. Blacks can be biased, prejudiced, discriminatory but their biases do not systematically deny whites anything. That is the fundamental difference.


So in predominately black areas, blacks are racist because they outnumber the whites and can therefore deny them access to what they want?

You're stating that every majority is guilty of an "ism" (race, age, sex).

What an odd stance.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:18 am 
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Killer V wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
In a sense it can but that is why terms like prejudice or discrimination need to be used instead of racism. This past election is a perfect example. If Blacks wanted to prevent Trump from being president they couldn't. Many did in fact. Conversely If Whites wanted to prevent Obama from being President they could have. Blacks did not have the power to elect Obama solely on the black vote.

Blacks lacked the power to prevent Trump from being President. That is but one example. You pick any entity and this would pretty much be the case. That is racism


What? So just the fact that white's outnumber blacks means racism?



In this instance no. If whites chose to manifest it in a way which denied blacks access to the Presidency they could. It doesn't apply to every instance but within the framework of an electoral system it could be. Barack Obama could be denied access to the Presidency If Whites Didn't Vote For him.

Racism at its very core is a denial of access. Whites have the power to deny blacks access to any entity for which they seek. Blacks don't have such power to do the same. Blacks can be biased, prejudiced, discriminatory but their biases do not systematically deny whites anything. That is the fundamental difference.


So in predominately black areas, blacks are racist because they outnumber the whites and can therefore deny them access to what they want?

You're stating that every majority is guilty of an "ism" (race, age, sex).

What an odd stance.


I used the election as a way to demonstrate how racism could prevent a person from being elected President. It is not about majority or minority as much as it is about power and the ability to oppress.

Blacks lack the resources to oppress Whites. Whites do not lack the resources to oppress blacks.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:24 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I used the election as a way to demonstrate how racism could prevent a person from being elected President. It is not about majority or minority as much as it is about power and the ability to oppress.

Blacks lack the resources to oppress Whites. Whites do not lack the resources to oppress blacks.


Forgive me, but I'm having a hard time following your argument.

Are you saying that you can only be racist if you have the power to oppress another race?

How would you describe the feelings of the oppressed race towards their oppressors?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:26 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I used the election as a way to demonstrate how racism could prevent a person from being elected President. It is not about majority or minority as much as it is about power and the ability to oppress.

Blacks lack the resources to oppress Whites. Whites do not lack the resources to oppress blacks.
So when white people are no longer the majority in America will they also be incapable of being racist?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:30 am 
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For the love of God dolphin why can't you understand the phpBB code?


its better this way

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I used the election as a way to demonstrate how racism could prevent a person from being elected President. It is not about majority or minority as much as it is about power and the ability to oppress.

Blacks lack the resources to oppress Whites. Whites do not lack the resources to oppress blacks.
So when white people are no longer the majority in America will they also be incapable of being racist?


Interesting. I asked about this late last year. I doubt it because the new majority will still feel the whites still hold the power. Not making a direct comparison but think South Africa. One issue I have with that power definition (not that it isn't true) is that there is an assumption that one race (oppressing) always acts in lock step and the other (oppressed) experiences it in lock step.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:38 am 
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Killer V wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I used the election as a way to demonstrate how racism could prevent a person from being elected President. It is not about majority or minority as much as it is about power and the ability to oppress.

Blacks lack the resources to oppress Whites. Whites do not lack the resources to oppress blacks.


Forgive me, but I'm having a hard time following your argument.

Are you saying that you can only be racist if you have the power to oppress another race?

How would you describe the feelings of the oppressed race towards their oppressors?


Prejudiced. Biased. Discriminatory. Not Racist. Racists emanates from Racism. Blacks aren't really a component in perpetuating racism thus they really can't be racist.

Seems a little apologetic but it really isnt. When you look at every sector in this nation you find that they are controlled by whites. Does anyone think it is an accident?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:39 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Prejudiced. Biased. Discriminatory.
I'll take Words That Describe Elmhurst Steve for $600, Alex.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:39 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Interesting. I asked about this late last year. I doubt it because the new majority will still feel the whites still hold the power. Not making a direct comparison but think South Africa.

In what year?

Is the Mugabe govt racist against white Rhodesians in Zimbabwe?


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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:40 am 
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Killer V wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
In a sense it can but that is why terms like prejudice or discrimination need to be used instead of racism. This past election is a perfect example. If Blacks wanted to prevent Trump from being president they couldn't. Many did in fact. Conversely If Whites wanted to prevent Obama from being President they could have. Blacks did not have the power to elect Obama solely on the black vote.

Blacks lacked the power to prevent Trump from being President. That is but one example. You pick any entity and this would pretty much be the case. That is racism


What? So just the fact that white's outnumber blacks means racism?



In this instance no. If whites chose to manifest it in a way which denied blacks access to the Presidency they could. It doesn't apply to every instance but within the framework of an electoral system it could be. Barack Obama could be denied access to the Presidency If Whites Didn't Vote For him.

Racism at its very core is a denial of access. Whites have the power to deny blacks access to any entity for which they seek. Blacks don't have such power to do the same. Blacks can be biased, prejudiced, discriminatory but their biases do not systematically deny whites anything. That is the fundamental difference.


So in predominately black areas, blacks are racist because they outnumber the whites and can therefore deny them access to what they want?

You're stating that every majority is guilty of an "ism" (race, age, sex).

What an odd stance.


You referenced every other ism. I didn't

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:54 am 
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America wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Interesting. I asked about this late last year. I doubt it because the new majority will still feel the whites still hold the power. Not making a direct comparison but think South Africa.

In what year?

Is the Mugabe govt racist against white Rhodesians in Zimbabwe?


Hopefully, I was not misunderstood in my South Africa comment. I was referring to the past South Africa where the whites were a minority but had all the power, apartheid.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:50 am 
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A FB page for one of the female suspects is still active... And people have found it.

If the FB comments are any indication, this situation definitely isn't helping race relations.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:53 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
A FB page for one of the female suspects is still active... And people have found it.

If the FB comments are any indication, this situation definitely isn't helping race relations.


no link?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:55 am 
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I'm sorry PM. I don't want to give any of the board racists an easy avenue to troll that page like it's a Julie DiCaro twitter account.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:59 am 
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Ugh. I don't know what's more annoying: Facebook Warriors feigning surprise that "this could happen in our back yard" or making this a race issue.

Evil is evil. Always has been. This isn't something new. We just have video cameras now.


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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:59 am 
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This is definitely a racially motivated event. When you throw in the fact the kid was special needs makes it much worse. The parent of the kid put trust in that idiot and he betrayed that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:00 am 
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Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:13 am 
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Surprised to see this Tumblr rhetoric make it to the board in a serious manner.

If your definition of "racism" is such that you need to say "well actually, this race is incapable of racism", maybe you need to cease playing word games and think about what the term is actually trying to define.

Because otherwise, you're saying that a black guy trying to sell his house isn't being racist when he doesn't want to sell it to a white dude, or hispanic or asian dude because they are white, hispanic, and/or asian. That's absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:31 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Surprised to see this Tumblr rhetoric make it to the board in a serious manner.

If your definition of "racism" is such that you need to say "well actually, this race is incapable of racism", maybe you need to cease playing word games and think about what the term is actually trying to define.

Because otherwise, you're saying that a black guy trying to sell his house isn't being racist when he doesn't want to sell it to a white dude, or hispanic or asian dude because they are white, hispanic, and/or asian. That's absurd.


You can parse through and define it anyway you want. I really don't care. When you speak of systemic racism and the institutionalization of it you cannot find any era or instance where black racism has prevented whites from obtaining anything they have sought to obtain. I stated that blacks (plural) can't be racist. If one black guy wants to prevent him from buying his house then he is discriminating against him because of his race. He will still be able to buy a house and more than likely on that very block if he chooses.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:33 am 
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So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Surprised to see this Tumblr rhetoric make it to the board in a serious manner.

If your definition of "racism" is such that you need to say "well actually, this race is incapable of racism", maybe you need to cease playing word games and think about what the term is actually trying to define.

Because otherwise, you're saying that a black guy trying to sell his house isn't being racist when he doesn't want to sell it to a white dude, or hispanic or asian dude because they are white, hispanic, and/or asian. That's absurd.


You can parse through and define it anyway you want. I really don't care. When you speak of systemic racism and the institutionalization of it you cannot find any era or instance where black racism has prevented whites from obtaining anything they have sought to obtain. I stated that blacks (plural) can't be racist. If one black guy wants to prevent him from buying his house then he is discriminating against him because of his race. He will still be able to buy a house and more than likely on that very block if he chooses.


If you are talking about American history than yes, but certainly this is not the case in world history.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?


Didn't Pittmike just provide the South Africa example for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:35 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Surprised to see this Tumblr rhetoric make it to the board in a serious manner.

If your definition of "racism" is such that you need to say "well actually, this race is incapable of racism", maybe you need to cease playing word games and think about what the term is actually trying to define.

Because otherwise, you're saying that a black guy trying to sell his house isn't being racist when he doesn't want to sell it to a white dude, or hispanic or asian dude because they are white, hispanic, and/or asian. That's absurd.


You can parse through and define it anyway you want. I really don't care. When you speak of systemic racism and the institutionalization of it you cannot find any era or instance where black racism has prevented whites from obtaining anything they have sought to obtain. I stated that blacks (plural) can't be racist. If one black guy wants to prevent him from buying his house then he is discriminating against him because of his race. He will still be able to buy a house and more than likely on that very block if he chooses.


If you are talking about American history than yes, but certainly this is not the case in world history.


You are right. I'm only speaking about America.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:42 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?


Didn't Pittmike just provide the South Africa example for you?
He did but with my question your "Deny the Presidency" criteria fails.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:43 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Surprised to see this Tumblr rhetoric make it to the board in a serious manner.

If your definition of "racism" is such that you need to say "well actually, this race is incapable of racism", maybe you need to cease playing word games and think about what the term is actually trying to define.

Because otherwise, you're saying that a black guy trying to sell his house isn't being racist when he doesn't want to sell it to a white dude, or hispanic or asian dude because they are white, hispanic, and/or asian. That's absurd.


You can parse through and define it anyway you want. I really don't care. When you speak of systemic racism and the institutionalization of it you cannot find any era or instance where black racism has prevented whites from obtaining anything they have sought to obtain. I stated that blacks (plural) can't be racist. If one black guy wants to prevent him from buying his house then he is discriminating against him because of his race. He will still be able to buy a house and more than likely on that very block if he chooses.


If you are talking about American history than yes, but certainly this is not the case in world history.


You are right. I'm only speaking about America.


That's good. Some people try to paint the picture that racial hatred is something primordial to whites, but I do not believe that to be the case. I recall in a college history class reading some Chinese fables that the gods first overcooked Africans, then undercooked whites before arriving upon the superior race. It seems that when a group from a certain region enjoyed military power over another group they justified their oppression as part of some natural order.

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?


Grandfathered in

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?


Grandfathered in
You leave him out of this. He grew up in a different time!

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:53 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?


Grandfathered in
You leave him out of this. He grew up in a different time!


:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?



Obviously, the numbers aren't what makes the racism. One need look no further than South Africa.

Slavery is in many ways like original sin for the U.S. It has definitely informed our institutions and continues to do so to this day, although perhaps- perhaps- to a somewhat lesser degree. I don't know what the answer is. In some ways it's like trying to repair a shattered glass.

Of course a black person/people can be hateful toward a white person/people. Clearly many are using this video to gleefully point out that fact. That isn't really the definition of racism, but usage and language changes all the time. If we're just going to make "racism" a synonym for "bigotry", then we probably have to find a word that describes what racism used to mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Torture Video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:57 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So ltg, when white people are no longer a majority will it still be possible for them to be racist?



Obviously, the numbers aren't what makes the racism. One need look no further than South Africa.

Slavery is in many ways like original sin for the U.S. It has definitely informed our institutions and continues to do so to this day, although perhaps- perhaps- to a somewhat lesser degree. I don't know what the answer is. In some ways it's like trying to repair a shattered glass.

Of course a black person/people can be hateful toward a white person/people. Clearly many are using this video to gleefully point out that fact. That isn't really the definition of racism, but usage and language changes all the time. If we're just going to make "racism" a synonym for "bigotry", then we probably have to find a word that describes what racism used to mean.
The definition ltg is using does require whites to be a majority. See his example about denying the Presidency to a black person.

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