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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:41 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
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He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.
A lot of newspapers were ads and filler. I'm not sure that comics, advice columns, and classified sections were "news" either.



Why is their a constant reduction in News divisions if their is all of this access? Why has there been all of the downsizing if the world has greater access?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:42 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.
A lot of newspapers were ads and filler. I'm not sure that comics, advice columns, and classified sections were "news" either.


Sure but you knew what those were.

Now "news" is usually nothing but opinion pieces.

There is still excellent journalism being done. It's on us as consumers to seek it out and not wait to be spoon-fed.
It's really not that hard to stay up to date on the news these days.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:44 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.
A lot of newspapers were ads and filler. I'm not sure that comics, advice columns, and classified sections were "news" either.


Sure but you knew what those were.

Now "news" is usually nothing but opinion pieces.

There is still excellent journalism being done. It's on us as consumers to seek it out and not wait to be spoon-fed.
It's really not that hard to stay up to date on the news these days.



It's not about staying up on it. It's about how it is presented.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So? His use of twitter is one of the biggest things of his Presidency. It's actually quite remarkable how he uses it and how dumb he is on it.


I'd say his use of Twitter earned him his Presidency. You know, along with that whole "white nationalist" thing. That's concerning, to say the least.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:48 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Why is their a constant reduction in News divisions if their is all of this access? Why has there been all of the downsizing if the world has greater access?
Many traditional news agencies have failed to evolve and have been passed by others. Also, automation has had an effect. Also, advertising models have put less money on traditional print. Also, many newspapers have consolidated or gone out of business.

A person living in the early 90s would marvel at the scope of news now available to us these days. If I wanted I could get all the news I wanted about what is happening in northern Denmark with ease. In the 90s, I couldn't even get that for northern Wisconsin without a lot of work.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:48 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So? His use of twitter is one of the biggest things of his Presidency. It's actually quite remarkable how he uses it and how dumb he is on it.


I'd say his use of Twitter earned him his Presidency. You know, along with that whole "white nationalist" thing. That's concerning, to say the least.

So that means there being a lot of articles about it makes sense then.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:49 am 
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Either the news is an indispensable component of modern democracy or it's a for-profit commercial enterprise. It doesn't get to be both, they don't get to pick what we take seriously and what we don't.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So? His use of twitter is one of the biggest things of his Presidency. It's actually quite remarkable how he uses it and how dumb he is on it.


I'd say his use of Twitter earned him his Presidency. You know, along with that whole "white nationalist" thing. That's concerning, to say the least.

So that means there being a lot of articles about it makes sense then.


Of course, but you've missed my point. The structure of the headline is important and is a specific shift from "the good ol' days."


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:55 am 
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I am learning a lot in this thread. One, Brick has shown me it is not awkward looking to use Also to start three consecutive sentences. Two, no one is going to bust LTG's ass for using their instead of there a couple times in a post. Third, and most importantly, the press corporations never tried to make a profit before 1990.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:56 am 
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Internet has just made it easier for the reader to surround themselves in like minded opinions.

30 years ago, you could buy one paper because it had a conservative slant over the more liberal one. That's about the extent of it.

Now between choosing every voice and algos suggesting more like minded voices more people are in a bubble than ever.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:57 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am learning a lot in this thread. One, Brick has shown me it is not awkward looking to use Also to start three consecutive sentences. Two, no one is going to bust LTG's ass for using their instead of there a couple times in a post. Third, and most importantly, the press corporations never tried to make a profit before 1990.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:57 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am learning a lot in this thread. One, Brick has shown me it is not awkward looking to use Also to start three consecutive sentences. Two, no one is going to bust LTG's ass for using their instead of there a couple times in a post. Third, and most importantly, the press corporations never tried to make a profit before 1990.



Yeah their instead of there is occurring with a greater degree of frequency for me.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Why is their a constant reduction in News divisions if their is all of this access? Why has there been all of the downsizing if the world has greater access?
Many traditional news agencies have failed to evolve and have been passed by others. Also, automation has had an effect. Also, advertising models have put less money on traditional print. Also, many newspapers have consolidated or gone out of business.

A person living in the early 90s would marvel at the scope of news now available to us these days. If I wanted I could get all the news I wanted about what is happening in northern Denmark with ease. In the 90s, I couldn't even get that for northern Wisconsin without a lot of work.



You're being provided with an opportunity to determine what's of interest to you. That is quite different than having it determined for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:02 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Internet has just made it easier for the reader to surround themselves in like minded opinions.

30 years ago, you could buy one paper because it had a conservative slant over the more liberal one. That's about the extent of it.

Now between choosing every voice and algos suggesting more like minded voices more people are in a bubble than ever.



This doesn't even taken account the number of fake journalist that are now trafficking on the internet. Anyone can become a journalist these days.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:04 am 
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Websites are determining what is news and what's not. There was always a degree of that going on during the era of newspapers -- editors deciding what to run -- but the rapid nature of news cycles today seem to compromise facts in favor of being first.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:04 am 
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long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am learning a lot in this thread. One, Brick has shown me it is not awkward looking to use Also to start three consecutive sentences. Two, no one is going to bust LTG's ass for using their instead of there a couple times in a post. Third, and most importantly, the press corporations never tried to make a profit before 1990.



Yeah their instead of there is occurring with a greater degree of frequency for me.


I do it as well. I am just surprised no one here gave you a jokingly hard time.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:06 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Internet has just made it easier for the reader to surround themselves in like minded opinions.

30 years ago, you could buy one paper because it had a conservative slant over the more liberal one. That's about the extent of it.

Now between choosing every voice and algos suggesting more like minded voices more people are in a bubble than ever.



I'd say it's really the opposite. Yeah, if Pete printed a conservative newspaper, Joe could print a liberal one and get at least similar exposure. Good luck trying to oppose Google and Facebook. And now we have ISPs making editorial decisions.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:06 am 
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The reader is now the editor.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:08 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Internet has just made it easier for the reader to surround themselves in like minded opinions.

30 years ago, you could buy one paper because it had a conservative slant over the more liberal one. That's about the extent of it.

Now between choosing every voice and algos suggesting more like minded voices more people are in a bubble than ever.



I'd say it's really the opposite. Yeah, if Pete printed a conservative newspaper, Joe could print a liberal one and get at least similar exposure. Good luck trying to oppose Google and Facebook. And now we have ISPs making editorial decisions.

Im talking about the reader's perspective. It is not hard to surround yourself with like minded thoughts, no matter what your beliefs are.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:09 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Websites are determining what is news and what's not. There was always a degree of that going on during the era of newspapers -- editors deciding what to run -- but the rapid nature of news cycles today seem to compromise facts in favor of being first.


I am not going to disagree that today news cycles, clicks and being first doesn't hurt but I cannot believe some of you do not agree that today in general is not better for news. Even if one just self limited their consumption to websites of ABC, NBC and CBS as well as those of 5 major newspapers you have the entire world at your fingertips news wise.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:09 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So? His use of twitter is one of the biggest things of his Presidency. It's actually quite remarkable how he uses it and how dumb he is on it.


I'd say his use of Twitter earned him his Presidency. You know, along with that whole "white nationalist" thing. That's concerning, to say the least.

So that means there being a lot of articles about it makes sense then.


Of course, but you've missed my point. The structure of the headline is important and is a specific shift from "the good ol' days."
Headlines have been attention grabbing for a long time too. They may be more keyword based now but is that really a reason to think the current state of journalism is terrible?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:10 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am learning a lot in this thread. One, Brick has shown me it is not awkward looking to use Also to start three consecutive sentences. Two, no one is going to bust LTG's ass for using their instead of there a couple times in a post. Third, and most importantly, the press corporations never tried to make a profit before 1990.
:lol: That's good.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:11 am 
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I always found it odd that the writer doesnt write their own headline.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:12 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Websites are determining what is news and what's not. There was always a degree of that going on during the era of newspapers -- editors deciding what to run -- but the rapid nature of news cycles today seem to compromise facts in favor of being first.


I am not going to disagree that today news cycles, clicks and being first doesn't hurt but I cannot believe some of you do not agree that today in general is not better for news. Even if one just self limited their consumption to websites of ABC, NBC and CBS as well as those of 5 major newspapers you have the entire world at your fingertips news wise.


Oh, I think access to news today is fantastic. Never been better. What I'm saying is the manner by which news is presented has changed to a degree that it's completely data-driven. Reality and simply reporting the story is secondary.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Internet has just made it easier for the reader to surround themselves in like minded opinions.

30 years ago, you could buy one paper because it had a conservative slant over the more liberal one. That's about the extent of it.

Now between choosing every voice and algos suggesting more like minded voices more people are in a bubble than ever.



I'd say it's really the opposite. Yeah, if Pete printed a conservative newspaper, Joe could print a liberal one and get at least similar exposure. Good luck trying to oppose Google and Facebook. And now we have ISPs making editorial decisions.

Im talking about the reader's perspective. It is not hard to surround yourself with like minded thoughts, no matter what your beliefs are.


True, for the time being.

But these huge tech firms ultimately control content. When we talk about censorship we generally mean by the state, but Google has so much power it's pretty much like a state actor. Google is certainly more powerful than Standard Oil at its peak.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:33 am 
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Our generation's Murrow...

Harvey Levin‏Verified account @HarveyLevinTMZ 3m3 minutes ago
RAY J, PRINCESS LOVE: DOG ALMOST DIES... Locked in a Closet http://bit.ly/2x8GS8R What would you do if this was your dog?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:31 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
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Clicks would rain down upon us if only we could get over ourselves and write about the same outrage as everyone else. Everyone else was doing this because it worked. We needed things to work.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

When I wrote for SB Nation -- part of Vox Media -- we were coached on sensationalizing headlines for more clicks. Like the Atlantic article explains, "Tiger Woods Switches to Nike Golf" got far fewer clicks than "Tiger Woods Makes Shocking Choice." You can imagine some of the headlines during his sex scandal, for example.

The primary focus of the news isn't to inform the public any more. It's to get more clicks faster than the guy down the street.

+ 6


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:34 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
The reader is now the editor.

theoretically, but so many of the new editors can't read in an discerning way


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:37 am 
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http://mashable.com/2017/08/21/cloudfla ... nxui7S6PqZ

Prince seems to understand the implications of what he's done here, but he doesn't really seem to care too much. And it's completely lost on him that his elimination of the Daily Stormer while ISIS sites remain is, at the very minimum, a tacit approval of the ISIS sites.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:27 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
http://mashable.com/2017/08/21/cloudflare-ceo-interview/#BEnxui7S6PqZ

Prince seems to understand the implications of what he's done here, but he doesn't really seem to care too much. And it's completely lost on him that his elimination of the Daily Stormer while ISIS sites remain is, at the very minimum, a tacit approval of the ISIS sites.


Funny you should mention that:

Quote:
Web hosting and cybersecurity firms in the US and UK have responded to revelations provided by the hacktivist group Anonymous that their services are being used by Islamic State (Isis) to spread online propaganda.

A list of pro-Isis websites and their corresponding web hosts compiled by members of the Anonymous faction GhostSec included Google, Yahoo! and GoDaddy. According to GhostSec, "by far the largest offender" was CloudFlare.

Speaking with IBTimes UK, co-founder and CEO of CloudFlare, Matthew Prince, said that his company would not be blocking its service to websites listed, as it would mean submitting to "mob rule".

"Individuals have decided that there is content they disagree with but the right way to deal with this is to follow the established law enforcement procedures. There is no society on Earth that tolerates mob rule because the mob is fickle," Prince said.

"We're the plumbers of the internet," Prince said. "We make the pipes work but it's not right for us to inspect what is or isn't going through the pipes. If companies like ours or ISPs (internet service providers) start censoring there would be an uproar. It would lead us down a path of internet censors and controls akin to a country like China."


That is an EPIC WYC?


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