I'm willing to admit I was wrong about Markkanen being bad. I mean, he's at least not bad and might be better than I thought.

See, I can do it.

I missed where you admitted that you were wrong about Trump having no shot at winning the election. You seemed to be that Horse a lot longer than Lauri "Short for Dirk" Markannen.

Ltg gets so dug in on certain topics it's impossible to discuss anything related to that topic with him. It appears Lonzo is now one of those topics.

This is the Lonzo thread after all.

This is the Lonzo thread after all. If Lonzo Ball's name was Jerian Grant and played for the Bulls we'd be bashing the hell out of him with those stats and that level of play. It seems that some are willing to look for any glimmer of hope in order to justify the hyperbole.

I left the Ball stuff alone earlier because i didn't think much about it or him. Never saw NBA superstar or even All Star. I saw a likely bust. Definitely aint a "stud". He has the look of a journeyman more than anything else. Once the hype dies down he will be in trouble.


You seem like you want in on the Ball hype. Have at it and be sure to bump the posters willing to admit they are wrong thread in a couple of years.

The first part of your post is wrong. Those of us watching the games would be thrilled to have someone with Lonzo's potential on the Bulls. Why would I be bashing him? Rondo is one of my favorite players ever.

I'm not "in" or out on the Lonzo hype. I didn't have a strong opinion either way. So far he's obviously struggling a lot to score but I like everything else I see.

If John Paxson had drafted Ball at 2 the detractors would never let him hear the end of it.

You can like whatever you wish to like. As it stands now the play hasn't matched the hype. It's not really about him being a hall of famer or an All Star out of the gate either. Just don't look like a journeyman.

Markelle Fultz is shooting a higher percentage and he has played all of his games with a bum shoulder.


When he begins to play better then I will back off. As it stands now there isn't anything special about him.

Bulls rookie has been much more impressive and so has Jayson Tatum.

For Shakes to say that Tatum hasn't is just plain dumb.

Criticism of Paxson is legitimate and not biased. If Paxson said the sky is blue you seem to think people here will criticize him for it. Not true. You can say or do the right thing on occasion and still be a dumbass. Like Paxson.

Lonzo doesn't look like a journeyman. I'd challenge you to back that up and name one that plays like him.

Look, the potential is clearly there. I guess you can't see it, and that's fine. But you're simply wrong to say the rest of us would be as reactionary as you are when it comes to judging players after 5 games. I don't have a strong opinion on any of these rookies so far except Ben Simmons, who is going to be the next great superstar.

So your repeated claims that they are the worst run front office in the league is an example of being unbiased?

People on here bashed because he had the nerve j

You have no problem assessing a guy that obviously had a bad shoulder but it's too early assess Ball

I don't think you're done writing your post but I think I get the gist. Yeah, the bulls front office is pretty bad. Maybe not the worst but definitely in the bottom ten, especially when judged against the team's resources and market. We've all gone over the horrid personnel moves so let me focus on other issues:

Hiring VDN who had little to no experience. Simplistic thought process to hire the opposite personality of Skiles without thinking about the systems Skiles installed.

Hiring Hoiberg when no one else wanted his dumbass.

Overseeing divisions between the coaches/players and the front office, and exacerbating it by installing spies on the bench.

Conservatism. They haven't made a smart deal that tells everyone they're going for it all. Rockets did that by acquiring Harden and then later Howard. Thunder just did it with George. The Celtics did it with that bitch Irving. The Bulls most notable deal is trading a MVP candidate for a cripple. And trading for Cameron Payne, and overpaying for him on top of that.

Almost killing Luol Deng.

And MANY more. Yeah he did some good stuff (Thibs) but doesn't mean you have to overlook everything else.

I disagree with the Pistons, Timberwolves, 76ers and Lakers.

Lakers won championships in 2009 and 2010. That was pretty dumb to say.

The Lakers have been garbage for about the last 5 or 6 years. Missed the Playoffs 5 years running.

Its dumb of you to not include the Timberwolves. They have missed the playoffs thirteen years in a row. What is so great about them? Their gaudy 4-3 record currently?

The Bulls have been relevant up until the last 2 seasons. Still made the playoffs and had a winning record the year they didn't.

Even during the Vinny years they made the playoffs.

But you didn't say the last 5 or 6 years. You said 10 years. 2 championships in any 10 year period is pretty good. And you knew if you said the last 5 years, you knew the Bull have made nothing but bad decisions in the last five years and you definitely wouldn't be able to omit them.


They are a small market team in the West, and in the last few years they have made strides. I'm not trying to say they've been good. But they aren't in the bottom 10.


Thanks Thibs for doing wonders here in Chicago.


Now that we've seen Hoiberg, it is more difficult for Bulls fans to shit on Vinny.

During the past 5 years the Bulls have been run better than the Lakers.

You disqualified yourself simply by including Minnesota. That Imbecile Hoiberg still had a better record than everyone's favorite Thibs last season. Until he does something he hasn't done nothing if you know what I mean.

Until he does something he hasn't done nothing if you know what I mean.

BUT YOU DIDN'T SAY 5 YEARS.

And again, if you want to change it from 10 years to 5 years, the Bulls and Lakers would BOTH be included on a Worst 10 list. The difference is the Lakers have Clarkson, Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Nance, Randle and a lot of cap space to bring in a star or two. The Bulls have Lauri, a broken LaVine, and your favorite player Kris Dunn and just paid Dwyane Wade almost $40M for one throwaway season.

That imbecile Hoiberg had Jimmy Butler. Do you want to match up this season's records?

I don't know what you mean. I don't follow CPS grammar.

The bulls are in the east, a functioning genius (Pax) can win 30 games a year.

That functioning genius appears to have fleeced Thibs on that Butler trade. It is becoming more apparent by the day.

Another great game for Lonzo and a really fun game for me to watch. After having to read all the ignorant bullshit in this forum it was nice to get to spend 2.5 hours watching and listening to former greats of the game gush over what an amazing talent Lonzo is. Zeke, McHale, Greg Anthony, Steve Smith, C Web...to a man they all spent the whole game talking about how great Lonzo is and how you have to really understand basketball to totally appreciate just what an immense effect he has on the game.

Talked about how its going to take him a couple years to really get it going (just like I said) and how his very presence has transformed the Lakers.

And what a game he had. 13 pts on 6/13 shooting, 6 boards, 3 assists, 0 turnovers, 2 blocks. Continued to play really good defense as he has most of the season. Doing a great job defending smaller guards. Had trouble on Tobias Harris, but that's a size mismatch and there's no shame in getting burned by a guy as good as Harris. And on top of that, he had several highlight reel plays, scoring and passing.

Plain and simple, there hasn't been a player to enter the league with this much pressure and fanfare since Lebron. Actually he has way more pressure than Lebron given all the stuff Lavar has said. For him to perform this well and show this much poise is really amazing. What he is doing under the microscope is far more impressive than any rookie out there besides Simmons. Last night was the first time he looked really poised and in control of the game, taking his time and finding seams in the defense that allowed him to get all the way to the hoop, he looked like the wiley vet out there as opposed to a rookie.

He played well last night but you make excuses whenever he doesn't so you're not really a credible source. They did gush over him quite a bit and the over the top praise of him didn't quite jive with what he has done thus far. The step back three was a nice move.


The Lakers team is also more talented than you have ever given them credit for. They also heaped praise on Kuzma (A guy that you consistently bash) and the oft maligned Randle. It is not Lonzo and a team of bums. I've seem rookies enter the league and play with much worse talent. He outplayed Jackson but Jackson really isn't that good anyway.

He has Portland tomorrow which means he will have to lock up with 2 guards that are going to be on the attack non stop. Lets see what he has then.

I've never seen a guy with his numbers ever be considered "great" either.