That and contract size. Jeez, but the Bulls couldn't get Gasol last year with any of their offers?! Then this year Memphis trades Gasol for a steaming pile of expiring contracts and draft picks.
Timing is indeed everything.
http://rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines. ... A&hl=92705

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

Wow, this is quite a coup for the Lakers

This will make the Lakers a force. Kobe can no longer cry about not having any players around him. Win a championship now or you rode Shaq's coattails for your championships.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.....

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself. Time for him to put up or shutup. He always seemed to resent the fact that Shaq was there and the major reason they won titles.

Win a championship or Kobe Bryant is the equivalent of Scottie Pippen. A great player who was essential in winning, but never the best player on a championship team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree! If the draft picks are low first rounders, what is lost? Kwame is going to be launched at the end of the year and I don't know much about the guard, so the Lakers got Pau Gasol for diddly shit.
Kobe has to be placated now.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

So I gather you feel Shaq is more responsible for the Lakers titles than Kobe?

I'm not the biggest Bulls fan, but this trade is going to have the die-hards up in a roar. The Bulls couldn't beat that deal?

No, they probably couldn't. Kwame Brown's contract is 9mil coming off the books, the Bulls couldn't offer that kind of cap relief.

The Bulls didn't have the expiring contracts, I guess, although I have continued to hear that the Bulls could use P.J. Brown's contract (in a sign and trade). I kind of doubt that is true though.

In any case, there always appears to be an excuse as to why the Bulls haven't been able to pull off a trade.

Gasol seemed to be the guy they would still be targeting, but, at this point, I have no idea what they are thinking about, if anything.

They don't have a true PG, a SG, a C or a PF.

Deng is probably the only guy who fits into a position perfectly (SF), while Hinrich is a hybrid guard, Gordon's a 6th man, Wallace is disinterested and/or washed up, Thabo shouldn't be starting on a team serious about getting deep into the playoffs, and Noah/Thomas are role players at best.

Well. I think the fact that Shaq won one with Dwayne Wade says a lot. I'm a huge Wade fan, but he's not as good as Kobe. I think that Shaq would have won at least one title with any top 10 guard in the league. Not now obviously but when he was less injury prone.

Even with that taken out I do. Shaq is the most dominant big man in history. He may not be the best one, but he was flat out unstoppable. Most teams had to double team him or foul him. He completely changed the game.

I don't think they win as many titles as they did without Kobe, but I also don't think they win any titles without Shaq. It's very Jordan/Pippen-like.

If Kobe wins a title without Shaq, then the whole discussion becomes moot. Both are capable of leading teams to titles. Until then, Kobe hasn't shown he can lead a team to a title just like Pippen was never able to(even though he got screwed against New York).

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

OK, so what player has Kobe played with since Shaq left that was on par with Wade? I guess what I think you're saying here is that Wade isn't as good as Kobe, but both won titles with Shaq, so that difference was made up for by Shaq?

Also, Kobe has led the Lakers to the playoffs virtually by himself in a tough conference where someone like Garnett with the Wolves was unable to do so

Financial issues have been a theme for Memphis. Maybe they changed their tune, but I wonder if the Bulls could have made this trade for P.J. Brown last season. Maybe they could have, and the stumbling block was adding a younger player to the deal (Tyrus Thomas).

Then again, all we kept hearing last year was some combination of Deng/Gordon for him.

Yeah, we'll never know for sure. I would have been fine giving up Brown's contract and Thomas (plus someone else of less significance if necessary) for Gasol.

Shaq was the common denominator. He proved he can win a title without Kobe. Kobe has to do that to prove that he can do it without the most dominant big man in NBA history. Shaq has proven that he can do it without one of the best scorers in NBA history.

Kobe was very eager to try and win a title without Shaq. He wanted to be the man in LA. Now he has a chance to show what he can do as the man. I'm not putting down Kobe, but his legacy is hurt by the fact that Shaq won a title without him.

As for Garnett vs. Kobe, Kobe has proven to be a better playoff leader than Garnett and Kobe's three championships are not canceled out since Garnett has 0. The argument could change greatly depending on who wins the championship this season but right now I'd take Kobe over Garnett for post-season success.

I just think that Shaq has proven more than Kobe. He was dominant in Orlando and so was Penny. Shaq leaves and Penny's production falls off(injuries also has an effect). Shaq is on three championship teams in LA where he is the most dominant player in the league. He leaves and the Lakers fall off the map and struggle for years but Kobe still scores a lot. He goes to Miami and all of a sudden Dwayne Wade becomes a superstar with him and he wins another title.

Now either Shaq has been lucky that a guard on his team just happens to emerge into a superstar everywhere he has gone or he had a major role in the development of those young players into superstars. It's a question we'll never know the answer to unless he comes to Chicago next year and Luol Deng becomes the best player in the league.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Indeed, we'll probably never know how close or the exact discussions.

I'm just beyond frustrated that we have a GM incapable of making a trade. Maybe that changes, but the core problem is that he overvalued his core, and now that core doesn't have as much value.