Are we sure Rubio is the better player between the two? I haven't gotten to watch a ton of either one, but they seem very similar. I'm pretty concerned about Rubio's lack of progression. Bagels?

I'm shocked that the Wolves aren't a playoff team.

I'm shocked that the Wolves aren't a playoff team.

Rubio's 6th in the league in real +/- for PGs. Marshall isn't even on the first page.

I'm shocked that the Wolves aren't a playoff team.

Yes, I am very sure that Rubio is better. His shooting percetage is horrid still (even though it has been a better of late) but he does other things quite well. He's a fantastic passer, one of the best in the league, he's a very good rebounder for his position, he's actually a fairly decent three point shooter, he's an excellent free throw shooter and he plays the passing lanes extremely well. He's also only 23 years old. He is in his third season but I still believe it is too early to make a definitive judgement.

He's a pretty bad 3 point shooter actually. He's a very inefficient scorer from everywhere on the court.

Career 32.6% from 3, this season 33.9%... I call that fair. Definitely could improve a bit as could his entire scoring repertoire. Reminds you of a lesser version of a certain point guard from the recent past. That said he has to start progressing a bit more.

Yeah, but quality of team heavily factors in to that, even though they tried to compartmentalize it more. There's no way Patrick Beverly, as much as I like him, has a greater impact than his nemesis Russell Westbrook on a game. I like Patty Mills, but he doesn't have more of an impact than John Wall. Manu Ginobli isn't better than James Harden, etc.

"real" plus-minus adjusts for team strength/opponents/etc. some versions even account for coaches.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus

Davis is 16th in WAR, 21st in RPM? Sounds like they have em right about where he belongs.

Glad you agree. Davis is 88th overall, 4 spots above 69 year old Derek Fisher:

I'm aware of real plus-minus and how it was formed. It's still a pretty flawed statistic.

Or maybe Derek Fisher contributes more than we'd expect and Anthony Davis less.

It isn't a flawed statistic. How one interprets its cause and import are subjective.

You're shocked? They have little outside of Love and a scoring deficient Rubio. They've also lost a slew of close games and are in a loaded conference.

Every statistic is inherently flawed, especially ones that rely on subjective methods of evaluating what actions are more important than others.

I feel like you haven't had enough to smoke and I haven't had enough to drink to further discuss this.

I don't smoke much anymore. Haven't had a toke since February.

playoffs are starting soon....

Good call. Hosting a get together?