This...Chicago baseball is not built from the ground up.
The Cub have benefited from busloads of halfwits running to a dump to see a steaming pile shit on green grass. I want a great baseball organization that can win because of it's farm system. Not by buying other team's overpriced garbage or hoping for lightning in a bottle out of a washed up vet.

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

well, it hasn't always been like that, joe. there was a long stretch where wrigley wasn't selling out all the time. i'd say ever since sosa and 98, it's changed. and certainly in the last 8 years it's gotten insane. but now it's a sham. people aren't going to see a contender; maybe in 2004 and a few years here and there they were.

i go to games very rarely. i treat them as a social event because of that. so when i go to a cubs game, you can count me as one of the people who doesn't really care what's going on in the field. i'm there to enjoy myself, and enjoy the atmosphere. i watch cubs games at home all year round yelling at the screen and throwing things in frustration. if i'm going to spend $100+ to go to the park, i'm going to enjoy myself regardless of what happens in the game.

i will agree that if you put a stadium in schaumberg it won't draw as much. but in naperville...

Ok the Cubs are on WGN just like the Sox. Maybe those people from out of town wanted to experience the Cubs first hand. No.. its just easier to say its all about Wrigley.

_________________

Above: the celebrated goyim of Chicago sports

_________________

3 Run Homer!!!!!
AWESOME!!!!

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Actually, you're the one who doesn't have a clue. But I'm guessing that's probably because you don't remember Chicago baseball prior to 1984. The "city" doesn't root for the Cubs. You're just talking shit. And while I would agree that the Sox offer a better overall ballpark experience. They don't offer a unique experience. And that's what the Cubs have. People like to believe they're experiencing the way baseball was in a "simpler" time. That's why they're so willing to cram themselves into tiny seats in a urine soaked park and love every minute of it. One day Wrigley Field will be no more and we'll see if the Cubs still have their huge fan base. By the way, it's the same Wrigley Field where about 5000 other people watched Ernie hit his 500th.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Except Reinsdorf has been successful while those three goofs have done everything in their power to destroy their storied franchises.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

I do not know anyone that has ever went to Wrigley to see a game because of this.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

So why do people go? To see the great brand of baseball played by the Cubs?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

I think there are a variety of reasons, but I don't think anyone goes to see baseball played in a "simpler" time.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I agree that there are a variety of reasons why people attend ballgames. But I'm pretty sure people aren't taking buses from DesMoines to drink at Bernie's or watch Ryan Theriot hit. They're coming to see the last vestige of the way baseball used to be. Or at least what they think baseball used to be. That's why you seen t-shirts that say "Wrigley Field" or Fenway Park" but you don't see t-shirts that say "U.S. Cellular Field" or "Kaufmann Stadium".

I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing, ASFB aside, I'm older than most guys posting here. When every team had an old park, Wrigley and Fenway were never considered "special". In fact, they were thought of as the worst places to watch a game. It's only now that they are the last remaining old parks that they- and the ":experience" they provide- have become prized.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

And I could say the same thing about a bunch of my Sox fan friends. You're taking a small sample and extrapolating it to serve your argument. The Cub "lore" is Wrigley Field. (I don't really know why. Nothing too good ever happened there for the Cubs.) Nobody cared prior to 1984. I remember when the upper deck was closed. And frankly, I think you're wrong. Guys graduate from Big Ten schools, get jobs in Chicago, move to Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville, and go to a bunch of Cub games. Then they get married and move to Naperville and go to a lot less games. They're replaced by a new crop of young knuckleheads. Maybe your crew is at the Naperville stage already and you'd get to more games if they played out there. That isn't the business model.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Do 10,000 plus Cubs fans show up in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Houston to see how baseball was played in a simpler time too? Do the Cubs carry around their oldfashionedness with them?

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

That was achieved by marketing Wrigley Field and the "good time experience" rather than baseball. Obviously it worked. I'm not criticizing their business practices. I'm just telling you you're kidding yourself if you think that park isn't a big factor.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

What? People go to PNC park because of Wrigley Field? That must have been one hell of a marketing campaign.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

I am not saying the Cub do not have a loyal following. They do, for sure. It's not just about Wrigley field.
It's no secret the Cub benefited from WGN, Harry, Arne, the sun and the boobs. The early years of the superstation were a windfall for the franchise's fanbase. It created Cub fans all over the nation. The Braves were in the same situation, but they did not have the total package the Cub had. If you were a young baseball fan in the '80s, you could watch baseball almost every afternoon in the summer. It's about the children.

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Im not disagreeing with you.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

Do you think Cub fans traveled to Pittsburgh in 1985 the way they do today? As a matter of fact, it was one hell of a marketing campaign. Why do you think John McDonough is so revered in the world of sports marketing? It wasn't something that happened overnight. It built slowly and Harry Caray and the good team in '84 got the ball rolling. McDonough knew he wasn't going anywhere by marketing the kind of baseball being played there pretty regularly so he concentrated on other things- Beanie Babies, Beer, Broads, etc. If and when they put together a winner, all the better. They created those fans that travel to Pittsburgh. More power to them. But I find it really disingenuous for Cub fans to argue on one hand how great Wrigley is, and then in other arguments, that it doesn't matter at all.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Exactly, which has nothing to do with seeing baseball played in a "simpler" time.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Well, let me ask you. Do you think Wrigley has anything to do with the Cubs' popularity?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Sure it has something, but as Mr. Reason stated above, it is not just about Wrigley and to think that just because Wrigley is no longer around means the Cubs will no longer have a lot of fans is just dumb.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I never suggested such a thing. And as Irish Boy pointed out, the Cubs have fans interested enough to follow them around. They aren't just going to disappear if the Cubs began playing elsewhere. But over time, I think they'd certainly lose an edge by not having what is viewed as a "special" ballpark. People don't go to Wrigley to see good baseball. They don't go for good food. They don't go for comfortable seating. So why do they go? And I'm not talking about born and bred Cub fans. The Sox have those type of fans too.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Oh no? You certainly implied it:

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Your inferences aren't my implications.

To be clear, I don't think it will happen overnight. Just as they didn't build that fan base overnight either. In fact, maybe the first year or two they could fill a 60,000 seat stadium in Hoffman Estates just with people who wanted to see it.

But I really hope that everyone who disagrees with me in this conversation doesn't talk about how great and how special Wrigley is in a different argument on a different day.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

You first state my inferences are wrong, and then you proceed to state that you still think it will happen. Make up your mind. If you believe it will happen, even if it is not overnight, then my inferences are correct.

I do not think you will find many fans here who go on and on about how "special" Wrigley is. Personally, I am a fan of the Cubs, not of a ball park. I will be a Cub fan regardless of where they are playing. If Wrigley is destroyed tomorrow, I would not care.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Wrigley is special to some, but not the sole reason the Cub has a tremendous fanbase, as you suggested.

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

I do think it will happen after a period of time. But you're trying to make it sound like I said that if they played elsewhere next season, nobody would go. And I certainly never did.

And I'm glad you'll be a Cub fan regardless of where they play. I'll be a Sox fan regardless of where they play too. But we're not discussing us or those like us. And the fact is that the Cubs were never more popular in Chicago than the White Sox until they began marketing "the Wrigley experience". And that's a fact.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

How do you go about proving this "fact"?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He's old! He knows!

_________________

tourists do. they want to see a "classic" ballpark. i've taken at least 3 friends and family to the park because they insisted they wanted to "see wrigley" - not necessarily, to see the cubs.