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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 9:56 am 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
This controversy kind of reminds me of a few years ago. When Kyler Murray was getting criticized because he wasn't spending enough time watching film. When you combine this with DJ Moore's body language towards Caleb, you gotta wonder what's going on.

Moore's body language was probably because Williams threw to more people than just him and Kmet. Moore actually got targeted more by Williams than he did from Fields. However, these were the next 3 targets.

Williams targeted him 140 times. Fields targeted him 136 times.
Williams:
Allen 121
Odunza 101
Kmet 55

Justin Fields played in 12 full games with D.J. Moore while Caleb played in 17

What does that have to do with how the ball was distributed?


Its not exactly a stretch to say he would have targeted DJ Moore more often had he played in more games.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:00 am 
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The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:04 am 
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Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:11 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

Yes. That is correct. Williams threw to Moore at a far lower percentage. That likely explains why Moore was disgruntled.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:43 am 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

Yes. That is correct. Williams threw to Moore at a far lower percentage. That likely explains why Moore was disgruntled.


Its clear to anyone that actually watched the games (which clearly you didn't) that Moore was pissed because Caleb had difficulty locating his pitches.

He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Which is precisely why they changed the playbook after about the 5th game

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:55 am 
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It seems to me that Caleb is much more interested in "branding" than he is with playing too.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 10:59 am 
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Moore performed better with Fields because he locked in on him. Moore had nearly half of Fields' passing yards in 2023. That isn't sustainable or a winning formula. Moore caught more balls last year.

Mooney and Fields weren't on the same page because of Fields' accuracy problems. They connected on half of his passes their last year in Chicago. It was similar to Odunze and Caleb. Both have better production if their quarterback was accurate on passes to them.

Kmet had a better connection with Bagent. He had 21 receptions and 2 touchdowns on 24 targets in 3 games.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 11:03 am 
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Justin Fields on target % has been higher than Caleb's every year he has been in the NFL. The Bears had to resort to Wide Receiver screens as their favorite play call because Caleb couldn't complete a pass longer than 10 yards.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 11:37 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.



They used DJ Moore out of the backfield twice as much as with Fields. His YPC was under 10 but his targets and completions were similar to 2023. Kmet had his worst season with Fields. Same goes for Mooney. After he left Fields he had his best season in ATL and will have a career year in WAS this year. Move him to the JETS and the expectations change.

At this point, I am going to let the season do the talking. Tired of going back and forth with pointless arguments over how good or bad Williams was last year with a bad coaching staff.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 11:56 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
It seems to me that Caleb is much more interested in "branding" than he is with playing too.

Citation needed

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 12:01 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Justin Fields on target % has been higher than Caleb's every year he has been in the NFL. The Bears had to resort to Wide Receiver screens as their favorite play call because Caleb couldn't complete a pass longer than 10 yards.

They had Fields throwing nothing but screens, too.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 12:02 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.



They used DJ Moore out of the backfield twice as much as with Fields. His YPC was under 10 but his targets and completions were similar to 2023. Kmet had his worst season with Fields. Same goes for Mooney. After he left Fields he had his best season in ATL and will have a career year in WAS this year. Move him to the JETS and the expectations change.

At this point, I am going to let the season do the talking. Tired of going back and forth with pointless arguments over how good or bad Williams was last year with a bad coaching staff.


Your points are always inane. Cole Kmet had 47 catches last season after 73 the previous season. This and yet his best seaaon was last according to you. And all you have done is make excuse after excuse as to why Caleb sucks. Its also clear that no one is willing to yell "generational" anymore either. At this point the best "we" hope for is that he isn't a bust. Which seems likely

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 12:04 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Justin Fields on target % has been higher than Caleb's every year he has been in the NFL. The Bears had to resort to Wide Receiver screens as their favorite play call because Caleb couldn't complete a pass longer than 10 yards.

They had Fields throwing nothing but screens, too.

He went deep much more than Caleb and the numbers back that up

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 2:48 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

Yes. That is correct. Williams threw to Moore at a far lower percentage. That likely explains why Moore was disgruntled.


Its clear to anyone that actually watched the games (which clearly you didn't) that Moore was pissed because Caleb had difficulty locating his pitches.

He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Which is precisely why they changed the playbook after about the 5th game

Wrong.

Fields in 23 was on target 73 percent of the time. Williams in 24 was on target 72.4 percent of the time. Williams did that even as he threw significantly more.

It's because Allen and Odinze were getting a lot more of the available throws.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 5:58 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

Yes. That is correct. Williams threw to Moore at a far lower percentage. That likely explains why Moore was disgruntled.


Its clear to anyone that actually watched the games (which clearly you didn't) that Moore was pissed because Caleb had difficulty locating his pitches.

He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Which is precisely why they changed the playbook after about the 5th game

Wrong.

Fields in 23 was on target 73 percent of the time. Williams in 24 was on target 72.4 percent of the time. Williams did that even as he threw significantly more.

It's because Allen and Odinze were getting a lot more of the available throws.


Stats clearly validat that Caleb is inaccurate

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 6:08 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The point is that Williams targeted others at a much higher rate. Moore finished with more targets last year but a much smaller overall percentage and he was likely disgruntled seeing others get the ball almost as often as him.


Williams threw 200 more passes with 4 more targets. DJ Moore's best season as a pro was with Fields as his QB. Same for Mooney and KMet.

Caleb Williams was a terrible QB last year and that is why they wanted him benched.

Yes. That is correct. Williams threw to Moore at a far lower percentage. That likely explains why Moore was disgruntled.


Its clear to anyone that actually watched the games (which clearly you didn't) that Moore was pissed because Caleb had difficulty locating his pitches.

He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Which is precisely why they changed the playbook after about the 5th game

Wrong.

Fields in 23 was on target 73 percent of the time. Williams in 24 was on target 72.4 percent of the time. Williams did that even as he threw significantly more.

It's because Allen and Odinze were getting a lot more of the available throws.


Stats clearly validat that Caleb is inaccurate

Fields intended yards per attempt in 2023: 8.0
Williams intended yards per attempt in 2024: 7.9

Even with intended yards per completion it is 5.9 for Fields and 4.8 for Williams so Fields was slightly better at completing those passes but he's helped by not throwing nearly as much.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:04 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Fields intended yards per attempt in 2023: 8.0
Williams intended yards per attempt in 2024: 7.9

Even with intended yards per completion it is 5.9 for Fields and 4.8 for Williams so Fields was slightly better at completing those passes but he's helped by not throwing nearly as much.

You forgot to back out which stats didn’t count.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:13 pm 
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I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:16 pm 
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Brick wrote:

Even with intended yards per completion it is 5.9 for Fields and 4.8 for Williams so Fields was slightly better at completing those passes but he's helped by not throwing nearly as much.


For his career Justin Fields easily Trumps Caleb in all of those categories

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:24 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".


The Bears were 30th in Passing Yards Per Game. But its "unrealistic" to presume that their lack of yardage was related to throwing so many screen passes

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:32 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".


The Bears were 30th in Passing Yards Per Game. But its "unrealistic" to presume that their lack of yardage was related to throwing so many screen passes

Oh, a defense of Fields that uses passing yards per game. Truly an amazing thing to see.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:39 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".


The Bears were 30th in Passing Yards Per Game. But its "unrealistic" to presume that their lack of yardage was related to throwing so many screen passes

Oh, a defense of Fields that uses passing yards per game. Truly an amazing thing to see.

Caleb was 7th in attempts last season.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:46 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".


The Bears were 30th in Passing Yards Per Game. But its "unrealistic" to presume that their lack of yardage was related to throwing so many screen passes

Oh, a defense of Fields that uses passing yards per game. Truly an amazing thing to see.

Caleb was 7th in attempts last season.

Well don't use passing yards per game if your point is about yards per attempt.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:58 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
I just realized he had edited his post. It said something like "Caleb only threw screen passes".


The Bears were 30th in Passing Yards Per Game. But its "unrealistic" to presume that their lack of yardage was related to throwing so many screen passes

Oh, a defense of Fields that uses passing yards per game. Truly an amazing thing to see.

Caleb was 7th in attempts last season.

Well don't use passing yards per game if your point is about yards per attempt.


Its clear that he passed a lot and accomplished very little.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 2:28 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
accomplished very little.
This will be your epitaph.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 2:47 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
accomplished very little.
This will be your epitaph.


Humping a car, being vastly overweight, not to mention pock marked face are the sort of things that a two bit loser like you consider to be "accomplishments". Thus i'm hardly going to concern myself too much with it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 3:49 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
It’s clear that he passed a lot and accomplished very little.

when you hear the way the Caleb ballwashers tell it you’d think they looked like the greatest show on turf out there


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 3:55 pm 
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USA wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
It’s clear that he passed a lot and accomplished very little.

when you hear the way the Caleb ballwashers tell it you’d think they looked like the greatest show on turf out there


From listening to the people here talk you'd never know that he was one of the worst QBs in the league last year. They incessantly yelled about coaching all last season and yet expectations for him and the team are no different than they were when they were being coached by the guy whom they all hated

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 3:59 pm 
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USA wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
It’s clear that he passed a lot and accomplished very little.

when you hear the way the Caleb ballwashers tell it you’d think they looked like the greatest show on turf out there

Literally nobody says that.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2025 6:04 pm 
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Same things were hearing last season in camp

Quote:
The Chicago Bears have a long way to go before Williams is polished
Overall, Mark Carman didn’t think Williams had a good day on Wednesday. He thinks Williams has a “long way to go” before he can be successful in 2025.

“Caleb Williams, I was expecting, I was hoping that the Ben Johnson impact would be immediate. The impact is not immediate,” Carman said of Williams’ development under Johnson since OTAs started in April. “He’s throwing off his back foot. He’s running out of bounds. He’s doing weird sidearm throws to no one. He’s overshooting receivers. He’s doing it while they’re doing live drills.

“He’s doing it while they’re just doing random, just throwing drills. It was not a good day for 18. So, look, he’s going to be the Bears quarterback. There’s no doubt about that. But there’s also no doubt that I’m sure that Ben Johnson is seeing that there was a long way to go for him to be successful. And I don’t know, I just thought the Ben Johnson impact would be immediate. It is not immediate.”

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