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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:01 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.


Please sit this one out

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:01 am 
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B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.

It does though. It specifically says "... no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Matthew 6 also quite clearly says that you should pray by yourself, that those who need to do it publicly are hypocrites. So if you are following the bible, you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Uh huh.
Ok so does anyone else who actually knows what they're talking about want to join the discussion?

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:02 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.


Please sit this one out

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:03 am 
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Darkside wrote:
B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.

It does though. It specifically says "... no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Matthew 6 also quite clearly says that you should pray by yourself, that those who need to do it publicly are hypocrites. So if you are following the bible, you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Uh huh.
Ok so does anyone else who actually knows what they're talking about want to join the discussion?

Ok. So does anyone who doesn't act like a bitch when facts are put in front of his face want to discuss this?

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:03 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. The Gov't is not banning religion. They are prohibiting gatherings.

At least Chicago area churches are abiding and doing the right thing for April.
If you are unable to congregate, then the "free exercise thereof" has been restricted.
The Chicago Archdiocese cancelled all of their in person services before the Stay at Home order was issued.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:04 am 
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B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.

It does though. It specifically says "... no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Matthew 6 also quite clearly says that you should pray by yourself, that those who need to do it publicly are hypocrites. So if you are following the bible, you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Uh huh.
Ok so does anyone else who actually knows what they're talking about want to join the discussion?

Ok. So does anyone who doesn't act like a patriot when facts are put in front of his face want to discuss this?

You don't know what you're talking about. We're finished here. Gbye.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:04 am 
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Darkside wrote:
B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.

It does though. It specifically says "... no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Matthew 6 also quite clearly says that you should pray by yourself, that those who need to do it publicly are hypocrites. So if you are following the bible, you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Uh huh.
Ok so does anyone else who actually knows what they're talking about want to join the discussion?


I think a couple of things.

You have eloquently and accurately stated the legal rights involved.

You also clearly understand that the restriction of the rights of those you disagree with, will ultimately end up with your rights being restricted as well down the road.

Having said that. most churches have willingly suspended gatherings for the greater good of all.. Which is a good thing.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:05 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. The Gov't is not banning religion. They are prohibiting gatherings.

At least Chicago area churches are abiding and doing the right thing for April.
If you are unable to congregate, then the "free exercise thereof" has been restricted.
The Chicago Archdiocese cancelled all of their in person services before the Stay at Home order was issued.



Which has ZERO to do with the point that DS has made.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:07 am 
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And that's fine. Willingly choosing to do so is the choice and rights of the church.
And if they chose otherwise, legally speaking, there is nothing legally that can be done about it.
The constitution of the United States is very clear on this. No ambiguous language in this one, no "well regulated church" language.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:08 am 
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No constitutional rights are being violated. These are temporary executive orders that will be rescinded once the ok is given. There is no violation of the constitution here. I think this whole thing as overblown but please don't warp this into something it's not... and educate yourselves on basic civics.


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:08 am 
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Darkside wrote:
B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Freedom of religion does not guarantee you have to go to a church. You can watch services on TV or online, and pray to whatever or whomever you want in your home or in your yard.

It does though. It specifically says "... no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Matthew 6 also quite clearly says that you should pray by yourself, that those who need to do it publicly are hypocrites. So if you are following the bible, you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Uh huh.
Ok so does anyone else who actually knows what they're talking about want to join the discussion?

Ok. So does anyone who doesn't act like a patriot when facts are put in front of his face want to discuss this?

You don't know what you're talking about. We're finished here. Gbye.

Tell you what. Quote Matthew 6:5 for us. Then go sit in the corner and shut the fuck up. Unless you really need the next 4 pages where you will use your usual argument of "nuh uh!!" when people prove you wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:10 am 
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Ya know, y'all should hear me out on this one. I have no interest in organized religion. I think a lot of it is just a last vestige of a fundamental basic human psychological fear of death. I have no dog in the religious fight other than to say that regardless of how silly I find it our country has protected the right and that's all there is to it. Its protected.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:12 am 
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Darkside wrote:
I have no interest in organized religion.

But you damn sure will tell those who do that they don't know what they are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:12 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Ya know, y'all should hear me out on this one. I have no interest in organized religion. I think a lot of it is just a last vestige of a fundamental basic human psychological fear of death. I have no dog in the religious fight other than to say that regardless of how silly I find it our country has protected the right and that's all there is to it. Its protected.


It still is protected.


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:12 am 
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bmac wrote:
Tell you what. Quote Matthew 6:5 for us. Then go sit in the corner and shut the fuck up. Unless you really need the next 4 pages where you will use your usual argument of "nuh uh!!" when people prove you wrong.

Are you actually making the claim that every religion follows the new testament?
Mac, you are better than that. Find a legal claim.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:13 am 
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Saying the Constitution? Well Matthew 6 says this is kinda missing the point.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:13 am 
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sucky thing is if people were to pack churches and get slammed with sickness there would be no acceptance of it being their own fault. then you have a ton of sick old people heading to the hospital.

messy situation.


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:15 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. The Gov't is not banning religion. They are prohibiting gatherings.

At least Chicago area churches are abiding and doing the right thing for April.
If you are unable to congregate, then the "free exercise thereof" has been restricted.
The Chicago Archdiocese cancelled all of their in person services before the Stay at Home order was issued.

Which has ZERO to do with the point that DS has made.
I see ZERO quotes from DS in this reply.

The point YOU made was that you were unable to congregate. I pointed out that you not being able to congregate was due to an Archdiocese decision that went into effect earlier than anything JB put into place.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:16 am 
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Darkside wrote:
bmac wrote:
Tell you what. Quote Matthew 6:5 for us. Then go sit in the corner and shut the fuck up. Unless you really need the next 4 pages where you will use your usual argument of "nuh uh!!" when people prove you wrong.

Are you actually making the claim that every religion follows the new testament?
Mac, you are better than that. Find a legal claim.

I said that the people who follow the NT should have no issue with it. You are the one who immediately started acting like a 4 year old.

If you did a little research for once in your life, the only people crying about not being able to get together are people who follow the NT. They are, to use Jesus words not mine, hypocrites. So just stop.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:19 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. The Gov't is not banning religion. They are prohibiting gatherings.

At least Chicago area churches are abiding and doing the right thing for April.
If you are unable to congregate, then the "free exercise thereof" has been restricted.
The Chicago Archdiocese cancelled all of their in person services before the Stay at Home order was issued.

Which has ZERO to do with the point that DS has made.
I see ZERO quotes from DS in this reply.

The point YOU made was that you were unable to congregate. I pointed out that you not being able to congregate was due to an Archdiocese decision that went into effect earlier than anything JB put into place.


good dolphin wrote:
Please sit this one out

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:21 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. The Gov't is not banning religion. They are prohibiting gatherings.

At least Chicago area churches are abiding and doing the right thing for April.
If you are unable to congregate, then the "free exercise thereof" has been restricted.
The Chicago Archdiocese cancelled all of their in person services before the Stay at Home order was issued.

Which has ZERO to do with the point that DS has made.
I see ZERO quotes from DS in this reply.

The point YOU made was that you were unable to congregate. I pointed out that you not being able to congregate was due to an Archdiocese decision that went into effect earlier than anything JB put into place.

And that's one organization that made that choice. Not every organization made that choice willingly.

To put this another way I think its dumb as hell to get into a big group of people right now whether they are worshipping Jesus or the Chicago Cubs. But legally restricting any religious group from gathering is unconstitutional.

Perhaps the state of emergency powers can be invoked on some level but I'm curious whether that holds up to constitutional standards. It will take a lawsuit to find out.

On a larger level, better definitions of what is a state of emergency and what limitations the governor has when invoking those powers will be necessary. That is becoming increasingly clear.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:23 am 
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B Mac wrote:
Darkside wrote:
bmac wrote:
Tell you what. Quote Matthew 6:5 for us. Then go sit in the corner and shut the fuck up. Unless you really need the next 4 pages where you will use your usual argument of "nuh uh!!" when people prove you wrong.

Are you actually making the claim that every religion follows the new testament?
Mac, you are better than that. Find a legal claim.

I said that the people who follow the NT should have no issue with it. You are the one who immediately started acting like a 4 year old.

If you did a little research for once in your life, the only people crying about not being able to get together are people who follow the NT. They are, to use Jesus words not mine, hypocrites. So just stop.

I'm acting like a 4 year old? Ok.
(Are we reading the same message board?)

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:24 am 
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Darkside wrote:
But legally restricting any religious group from gathering is unconstitutional.



smh


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:24 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
No constitutional rights are being violated. These are temporary executive orders that will be rescinded once the ok is given. There is no violation of the constitution here. I think this whole thing as overblown but please don't warp this into something it's not... and educate yourselves on basic civics.


That are currently restricting the free exercise of religion. Like receiving communion, as DS pointed out.

Having said that, I'm OK with how he Cardinal has stepped up on this.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:25 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
No constitutional rights are being violated. These are temporary executive orders that will be rescinded once the ok is given. There is no violation of the constitution here. I think this whole thing as overblown but please don't warp this into something it's not... and educate yourselves on basic civics.


That are currently restricting the free exercise of religion. Like receiving communion, as DS pointed out.

Having said that, I'm OK with how he Cardinal has stepped up on this.


This is not a constitutional violation if deemed an emergency. Never has been.


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:26 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
I'm OK with how he Cardinal has stepped up on this.
So if the church takes away your rights, thats OK.

Its funny that it takes you replying to somebody else for you to acknowledge my point. And that I was right. Again.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:26 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Perhaps the state of emergency powers can be invoked on some level but I'm curious whether that holds up to constitutional standards. It will take a lawsuit to find out.


That's why you close the courts before attempting your putsch.

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:28 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
I'm OK with how he Cardinal has stepped up on this.
So if the church takes away your rights, thats OK.

What?

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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:28 am 
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Also, communion is not fully restricted, if a patient needs his last rites, a priest is allowed into the hospital room(no matter how locked down) to administer it. Please gather all facts before posting.


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 Post subject: Re: JB
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:30 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
I'm OK with how he Cardinal has stepped up on this.
So if the church takes away your rights, thats OK.

Its funny that it takes you replying to somebody else for you to acknowledge my point. And that I was right. Again.

In the case of one organization, perhaps but there are more religions than yours.
Many are ok with the choice of the cardinal. Such as you and Seacrest. You're chosen to not practice your freedom of religion in that manner.
Apparently other religions in other places aren't so happy about it. There have been charges against religious leaders for holding services.

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